The Faith Meme
Jul. 21st, 2009 09:36 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dreamflowerOriginally, I had planned to take a pass on this meme; I was afraid that my answers might upset some people, but so many people on my flist have opened up their own hearts, that I decided I would take the chance.
Caveat: These are my personal beliefs, and I mean no offense to anyone who believes differently.
1. What faith were you born into or raised with (if any)?
My mother was what is generally called a "mainstream" Christian. Although she was raised a Congregationalist, that denomination is uncommon in the South, and so far as I can recollect we always attended Methodist churches, or the base chapel services (my Daddy was Air Force) except when visiting relatives. I only vaguely remember my maternal grandmother's church (from her funeral), but I frequently went to the church of my paternal relatives, which was Southern Baptist.
My father never went to church. He spent Sunday morning on the couch with a newspaper over his face. I do not know why he did not go to church-- I never had the chance to ask him.
As a child and in my early teens, church was a social thing and not really anything to do with spirituality. I enjoyed Sunday School and I especially enjoyed Vacation Bible School, as they were a chance to get with my friends, and to do arts and crafts, and to sing. I always enjoyed singing, and for a while was in a children's choir, and I often took part in Christmas or Easter pageants. Another thing I enjoyed was the old Southern church custom (whatever your denomination) of "dinner-on-the-grounds", those ubiquitous potlucks that most churches held at least once a month. When I was visiting my cousins on my father's side, and later when we lived in that area for a while, I can recall playing in the church cemetery and noticing the graves of relatives I'd never met.
But, again, for me at that age, church was mostly just another form of entertainment. But unlike many of my friends who have done this meme, I was never traumatized and never felt like church was something to be avoided.
2. Were you devout as a child/adolescent?
I don't think so. (See above.) There were times when I was especially moved by certain things, and from my very earliest childhood I remember a very vivid dream of Jesus in which He was pushing me on a swing and talking to me, and I woke up with such a feeling of love and of being protected that I can remember laughing and snuggling back down, knowing I was safe. And I was very sincere every night when I said the traditional "Now I lay me down to sleep" prayer. (Although I did not realize my mother had changed the words. I always said "Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep, watch over me all through the night, and wake me with the morning light.") The first time I heard the "if I should die before I wake" version, I was seriously shocked!
3. If you are not currently practicing your childhood faith, what led you away from it?
*grin* Well, I am, although I *was* away from it for a while in my later teens all during High School. (Which was not to say I didn't *GO* to church-- after all, there were friends to see, and activities to take part in. But I was really searching for something more "esoteric".
What led me to become a "true believer" is a part of all that, and intimately wrapped up in my fandom.
4. How many religious denominations, traditions, and/or groups have you belonged to?
I've only ever "belonged" to the one. I've basically been a Methodist my whole life, although when I attended college in Miami, I went to other churches for logistical reasons. My first couple of years there, I went to a small non-denominational Bible church, and my last couple of years, I attended a Presbyterian church.
Also, my college was a non-denominational evangelical Bible college, so naturally I was a good deal influenced by the teachings there.
5. How would you describe your religion now?
Well, I went through a very dogmatic phase right after my conversion to true believer. And my college instructors were very intelligent and devout men whom I admired (and still admire). But the certainties I had about the dogma I learned has faded a good deal over the years, and I'm far more tolerant than I used to be. I still believe in the doctrine of the Apostle's Creed--but so much else that I was taught I began to realize was much more "man's interpretation" rather than "God's revelation".
I think now that probably the chief guides to my conscience are (as they seem to be for so many on my flist) the Golden Rule and the admonition to "judge not, lest ye be judged".
6. How long have you been practicing that religion?
Well, as you can see, in one sense of the word, I've been "practicing" it all my life. But in another sense of the word, it didn't really happen for me until the year after I graduated High School.
All through High School, I had been searching for something more esoteric and exotic than my supposedly "bland white bread" church. It was the era of the hippy, and I was a desperate wannabe. I was too chicken to try drugs, but I dug into Buddhism and transcendental meditation and neo-paganism and astrology and so forth, coming up with a mish-mash of beliefs that somehow incorporated all of them.
However, I suppose you could say that at that point the *CHIEF* influence on me was my encounter with LotR. I devoted most of my high school years to reading and re-reading the books. But not until my senior year did I start looking into the life of its author. I was surprised to discover that JRRT was a devout Catholic, and intrigued by learning about the Inklings and his friendship with CS Lewis. I began reading Lewis' books-- Narnia first (and of course immediately understood the implications of TLTW&TW) and then his space trilogy, which I read in my freshman year of college.
Perelandra is actually what did it for me. I suddenly realized that Christianity was not "boring", but a vibrant and living thing. I remember feeling, like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz that what I had been searching for had been in my own back yard all the while, only I could not appreciate it until I saw it presented in a different light.
I was very fervent then, as it all was so new and fresh to me. I am far more mellow now, but one thing drew me back to the church of my childhood: the Methodist way of "open doors, open hearts, open minds", and the fact that Methodism is very much a church of social intervention--Methodists believe in tending people's physical needs, feeding the hungry, tending the sick, caring for the widowed and orphaned and poor among us. It's God's job to collect their souls.
7. Do you pray? If so, how?
I do. I am always making prayer requests in my mind, and in church, I try to be as devout as I can in joining the liturgy. I have certain friends for whom I pray frequently and fervently, and others whom I remember less often. In times of stress, I often find myself simply praying, "Fix it, Lord. Make it all come out right."
And praise prayer is important to me as well-- I often find myself moved to worship the wonders of God.
8. Do you practice magic? If so, do you distinguish it from prayer?
Magic in the sense of spells and so forth is something I dabbled with in my teens. I don't believe in that kind of magic any longer. But magic as having a sense of wonder about the amazing things of the world-- that I do believe in. There are things that cannot be explained by science, and there are even things that cannot be explained by dogma.
9. Do you work with divinatory oracles like Tarot, astrology, the Runes, etc?
No. I did in high school I had a Ouija board, and was quite convinced by it. And I was enough into astrology that I know more about my horoscope than most folks do. (My sun sign is Cancer, my moon is in Taurus, and my rising sign is Libra.) I never really got into Tarot or Runes-- they were not as accessible to me at the time.
10. Describe your personal concept of God/dess/Higher Power/etc.
I can't come up with any better description than this, which I believe with all my heart:
"I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth, and His only Son our Lord, Jesus Christ, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, who was crucified, dead and buried, and on the third day He rose from the dead, and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting."*
(For those of you who were not raised in the tradition of the Apostle's Creed, the "catholic" church refers not to the Roman Catholic church, but to the universal church of all believers who ever lived or ever will live, and "saints" refers to all true believers.)
(*I did this from memory, so if the words aren't quite exact, please pardon me.)
11. How does your religion/spirituality explain the concept of/presence of evil?
I do believe in Evil. I think there is a Fallen One, call him Satan, or Melkor or Lucifer, who began it all first. But I also believe that each of us has the possibilities within ourselves of both good and evil. We can't have the excuse "The devil made me do it" because he can never "make" us do anything we don't choose to do.
Evil exists because choice exists, because God did not wish for the service of robots, but for the love of his children-- who have been known to rebel.
12. Is music and/or dance important to your path? Why or why not?
Music very much so. Hymns and lines from hymns often run through my mind, or I sing them aloud. I love congregational singing, and have sung in choirs in the past.
Dance, less so, though I have seen some very moving presentations of worshipful dance.
13. What is your concept of the afterlife?
I know I will be in the presence of my Lord and of others I loved who went before me. How that will manifest itself to me I have no idea. Streets of gold and mansions of glory are nice metaphors, but I don't think it will be quite like that. And I don't think I will sit about on a cloud, or turn into an angel. But it's easier to say what I don't think than what I do.
14. Do you believe in ghosts, spirits, Faeries, devas, and/or other beings beyond ordinary perception?
Yes. I think there are other beings God created that are outside our normal perception, and outside our own fates as mortals. Some are undoubtedly angels or demons, but I think there are probably others which do not fall into that category. I'm undoubted influenced by CS Lewis in this area.
I also believe in ghosts, but I don't believe they are the actual spirits of departed people (or animals) I do believe they are sort of "echoes" or "reflections" of living beings, that for one reason or another have been left behind, and who can be perceived by those who are sensitive to them.
My husband is one who can see those echoes, and he accepts them very matter-of-factly. Mostly animals. I've only ever *seen* something out of the corner of my eye, but when we lived in Mississippi, more than once I felt the presence of our deceased cat jump up on the bed in the middle of the night.
15. If you have children, are you raising them in your religion/spirituality? Why or why not?
My son was brought up to go to Sunday School and VBS and church. Like me, I think most of his experiences were positive ones. However, he had a rather tumultuous adolescence and got away from church at that time. (Much like his mother, only rougher--my rebellions were much tamer.)
He was into Wicca for many years after he got older, but he has lately been talking about getting back into a church.
Personally, I don't think taking children to church or bringing them up in the parent's own path is harmful in and of itself. It all depends on *what* the church or synagogue or whatever is like. And so much of that is local and subjective.
Sad to say, it *can* be harmful when the church is led by those who want personal control or glory, which happens all too often.
Caveat: These are my personal beliefs, and I mean no offense to anyone who believes differently.
1. What faith were you born into or raised with (if any)?
My mother was what is generally called a "mainstream" Christian. Although she was raised a Congregationalist, that denomination is uncommon in the South, and so far as I can recollect we always attended Methodist churches, or the base chapel services (my Daddy was Air Force) except when visiting relatives. I only vaguely remember my maternal grandmother's church (from her funeral), but I frequently went to the church of my paternal relatives, which was Southern Baptist.
My father never went to church. He spent Sunday morning on the couch with a newspaper over his face. I do not know why he did not go to church-- I never had the chance to ask him.
As a child and in my early teens, church was a social thing and not really anything to do with spirituality. I enjoyed Sunday School and I especially enjoyed Vacation Bible School, as they were a chance to get with my friends, and to do arts and crafts, and to sing. I always enjoyed singing, and for a while was in a children's choir, and I often took part in Christmas or Easter pageants. Another thing I enjoyed was the old Southern church custom (whatever your denomination) of "dinner-on-the-grounds", those ubiquitous potlucks that most churches held at least once a month. When I was visiting my cousins on my father's side, and later when we lived in that area for a while, I can recall playing in the church cemetery and noticing the graves of relatives I'd never met.
But, again, for me at that age, church was mostly just another form of entertainment. But unlike many of my friends who have done this meme, I was never traumatized and never felt like church was something to be avoided.
2. Were you devout as a child/adolescent?
I don't think so. (See above.) There were times when I was especially moved by certain things, and from my very earliest childhood I remember a very vivid dream of Jesus in which He was pushing me on a swing and talking to me, and I woke up with such a feeling of love and of being protected that I can remember laughing and snuggling back down, knowing I was safe. And I was very sincere every night when I said the traditional "Now I lay me down to sleep" prayer. (Although I did not realize my mother had changed the words. I always said "Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep, watch over me all through the night, and wake me with the morning light.") The first time I heard the "if I should die before I wake" version, I was seriously shocked!
3. If you are not currently practicing your childhood faith, what led you away from it?
*grin* Well, I am, although I *was* away from it for a while in my later teens all during High School. (Which was not to say I didn't *GO* to church-- after all, there were friends to see, and activities to take part in. But I was really searching for something more "esoteric".
What led me to become a "true believer" is a part of all that, and intimately wrapped up in my fandom.
4. How many religious denominations, traditions, and/or groups have you belonged to?
I've only ever "belonged" to the one. I've basically been a Methodist my whole life, although when I attended college in Miami, I went to other churches for logistical reasons. My first couple of years there, I went to a small non-denominational Bible church, and my last couple of years, I attended a Presbyterian church.
Also, my college was a non-denominational evangelical Bible college, so naturally I was a good deal influenced by the teachings there.
5. How would you describe your religion now?
Well, I went through a very dogmatic phase right after my conversion to true believer. And my college instructors were very intelligent and devout men whom I admired (and still admire). But the certainties I had about the dogma I learned has faded a good deal over the years, and I'm far more tolerant than I used to be. I still believe in the doctrine of the Apostle's Creed--but so much else that I was taught I began to realize was much more "man's interpretation" rather than "God's revelation".
I think now that probably the chief guides to my conscience are (as they seem to be for so many on my flist) the Golden Rule and the admonition to "judge not, lest ye be judged".
6. How long have you been practicing that religion?
Well, as you can see, in one sense of the word, I've been "practicing" it all my life. But in another sense of the word, it didn't really happen for me until the year after I graduated High School.
All through High School, I had been searching for something more esoteric and exotic than my supposedly "bland white bread" church. It was the era of the hippy, and I was a desperate wannabe. I was too chicken to try drugs, but I dug into Buddhism and transcendental meditation and neo-paganism and astrology and so forth, coming up with a mish-mash of beliefs that somehow incorporated all of them.
However, I suppose you could say that at that point the *CHIEF* influence on me was my encounter with LotR. I devoted most of my high school years to reading and re-reading the books. But not until my senior year did I start looking into the life of its author. I was surprised to discover that JRRT was a devout Catholic, and intrigued by learning about the Inklings and his friendship with CS Lewis. I began reading Lewis' books-- Narnia first (and of course immediately understood the implications of TLTW&TW) and then his space trilogy, which I read in my freshman year of college.
Perelandra is actually what did it for me. I suddenly realized that Christianity was not "boring", but a vibrant and living thing. I remember feeling, like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz that what I had been searching for had been in my own back yard all the while, only I could not appreciate it until I saw it presented in a different light.
I was very fervent then, as it all was so new and fresh to me. I am far more mellow now, but one thing drew me back to the church of my childhood: the Methodist way of "open doors, open hearts, open minds", and the fact that Methodism is very much a church of social intervention--Methodists believe in tending people's physical needs, feeding the hungry, tending the sick, caring for the widowed and orphaned and poor among us. It's God's job to collect their souls.
7. Do you pray? If so, how?
I do. I am always making prayer requests in my mind, and in church, I try to be as devout as I can in joining the liturgy. I have certain friends for whom I pray frequently and fervently, and others whom I remember less often. In times of stress, I often find myself simply praying, "Fix it, Lord. Make it all come out right."
And praise prayer is important to me as well-- I often find myself moved to worship the wonders of God.
8. Do you practice magic? If so, do you distinguish it from prayer?
Magic in the sense of spells and so forth is something I dabbled with in my teens. I don't believe in that kind of magic any longer. But magic as having a sense of wonder about the amazing things of the world-- that I do believe in. There are things that cannot be explained by science, and there are even things that cannot be explained by dogma.
9. Do you work with divinatory oracles like Tarot, astrology, the Runes, etc?
No. I did in high school I had a Ouija board, and was quite convinced by it. And I was enough into astrology that I know more about my horoscope than most folks do. (My sun sign is Cancer, my moon is in Taurus, and my rising sign is Libra.) I never really got into Tarot or Runes-- they were not as accessible to me at the time.
10. Describe your personal concept of God/dess/Higher Power/etc.
I can't come up with any better description than this, which I believe with all my heart:
"I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth, and His only Son our Lord, Jesus Christ, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, who was crucified, dead and buried, and on the third day He rose from the dead, and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting."*
(For those of you who were not raised in the tradition of the Apostle's Creed, the "catholic" church refers not to the Roman Catholic church, but to the universal church of all believers who ever lived or ever will live, and "saints" refers to all true believers.)
(*I did this from memory, so if the words aren't quite exact, please pardon me.)
11. How does your religion/spirituality explain the concept of/presence of evil?
I do believe in Evil. I think there is a Fallen One, call him Satan, or Melkor or Lucifer, who began it all first. But I also believe that each of us has the possibilities within ourselves of both good and evil. We can't have the excuse "The devil made me do it" because he can never "make" us do anything we don't choose to do.
Evil exists because choice exists, because God did not wish for the service of robots, but for the love of his children-- who have been known to rebel.
12. Is music and/or dance important to your path? Why or why not?
Music very much so. Hymns and lines from hymns often run through my mind, or I sing them aloud. I love congregational singing, and have sung in choirs in the past.
Dance, less so, though I have seen some very moving presentations of worshipful dance.
13. What is your concept of the afterlife?
I know I will be in the presence of my Lord and of others I loved who went before me. How that will manifest itself to me I have no idea. Streets of gold and mansions of glory are nice metaphors, but I don't think it will be quite like that. And I don't think I will sit about on a cloud, or turn into an angel. But it's easier to say what I don't think than what I do.
14. Do you believe in ghosts, spirits, Faeries, devas, and/or other beings beyond ordinary perception?
Yes. I think there are other beings God created that are outside our normal perception, and outside our own fates as mortals. Some are undoubtedly angels or demons, but I think there are probably others which do not fall into that category. I'm undoubted influenced by CS Lewis in this area.
I also believe in ghosts, but I don't believe they are the actual spirits of departed people (or animals) I do believe they are sort of "echoes" or "reflections" of living beings, that for one reason or another have been left behind, and who can be perceived by those who are sensitive to them.
My husband is one who can see those echoes, and he accepts them very matter-of-factly. Mostly animals. I've only ever *seen* something out of the corner of my eye, but when we lived in Mississippi, more than once I felt the presence of our deceased cat jump up on the bed in the middle of the night.
15. If you have children, are you raising them in your religion/spirituality? Why or why not?
My son was brought up to go to Sunday School and VBS and church. Like me, I think most of his experiences were positive ones. However, he had a rather tumultuous adolescence and got away from church at that time. (Much like his mother, only rougher--my rebellions were much tamer.)
He was into Wicca for many years after he got older, but he has lately been talking about getting back into a church.
Personally, I don't think taking children to church or bringing them up in the parent's own path is harmful in and of itself. It all depends on *what* the church or synagogue or whatever is like. And so much of that is local and subjective.
Sad to say, it *can* be harmful when the church is led by those who want personal control or glory, which happens all too often.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 03:00 pm (UTC)Don't know if I'll do the meme. It would be pretty dull, I think.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 03:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 03:02 pm (UTC)I don't have a religion, but I have great respect for anyone who does.
*Evil exists because choice exists* - exactly, and without choice what are we?
"Now I lay me down to sleep" - wow! I like your mum's version better than the one we were taught (as although I am atheist I live in a predominalty christian area which is split pretty evenly CoE and RC).
no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 03:20 pm (UTC)I like this very much. :)
Another thing I enjoyed was the old Southern church custom (whatever your denomination) of "dinner-on-the-grounds", those ubiquitous potlucks that most churches held at least once a month.
I love hearing about Southern traditions and culture. There always seems to be such a rich, laid-back, colourful feeling to it, whether it be religion, food, language, architecture... I wish I could visit the South with you as my tour guide! :)
no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 04:34 pm (UTC)I'd never thought of that being the way to put it - like Dorothy's experience - but that's sort of how I felt/feel as an adult in the church myself. :) What a great metaphor!
I am so grateful that you decided to do this. Your answers are wonderful.
PS - that's one reason I love family night dinners at our church; it's almost like a return to dinner on the grounds, just. . .not potluck!
*hugs*
no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 04:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 05:18 pm (UTC)I love that this meme is helping me learn more about people that I've known for a long time. Thanks a lot for posting.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 06:48 pm (UTC)Evil exists because choice exists, because God did not wish for the service of robots, but for the love of his children-- who have been known to rebel.
That makes sense to me.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 09:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 09:41 pm (UTC)Yes, I don't know where my mom got the version she used. I thought that perhaps she'd made it up, but enough people have said they are familiar with it that she must have gotten it elsewhere.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 09:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 09:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 09:49 pm (UTC)I loved it when we had the all-day sings as well!
no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 09:51 pm (UTC)I'm glad you liked it-- I thought that it might sound a little boring to some, and perhaps offend some others. I've been pleased at the open-hearted responses.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 09:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 09:57 pm (UTC)It's been interesting to me as well to learn more about my friends.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 09:59 pm (UTC)It is the only answer that makes any sense at all to me.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 10:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 10:05 pm (UTC)Sometimes when observing conservative christians, I do wonder why they act not so open-minded towards others. It feels aggressive almost, but then there are so many forms in the States that it is hard to keep track.
Sad to say, it *can* be harmful when the church is led by those who want personal control or glory, which happens all too often.
So right. Mum's bad experience with a protestant pastor made her very protective about us. She did not want any correspondence, none visiting from church and left it up to us, when we turned 18, if we wanted to go to church or not. They did try though and it made her furious. Hubby turned away from his faith (Roman Catholic) before I met it and doesn't want anything to do with it. But the way you practice it, it is for the utmost good, an attitude that just feels normal to me.
Thanks so much for sharing!
no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 11:25 pm (UTC)Being a Christian means believing in and following Christ. It has nothing whatsoever to do with secular politics.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-22 11:30 pm (UTC)(Nothing I say is meant critically in any way. If it comes across that way, it is my poor ability to communicate. I loved everything that you said, truly. Also, I mean no offense to anyone else who might read my responses to you.)
2 I LOVE your mom's version of that prayer! I never felt comfortable with the other version. I prayed as a child, but was taught from the start to pray what I was thinking/feeling/needing, not a rote prayer, so I never used it.
6. C.S. Lewis did a lot for my own devotion to my beliefs as well. *smile*
10. I am not familiar with the Apostle's Creed, but reading it here all I can think is - very well said.
11. Agreed. And agreed. I believe in a driving force of evil, but all of us have the freedom to choose between the influence of good and the influence of evil. And as for 'children rebelling' I love a line from Stargate SG-1 "The very young do not always do as they are told." hehehe But yes, I agree evil exists in the world because God gave his children the ability to choose for themselves, and lets us experience the results of our choices.
Thanks for sharing. *hugs*
no subject
Date: 2009-07-23 01:19 am (UTC)The Apostle's Creed is an ancient statement of faith that dates far back, at least to the fourth century, if not further. I know that in addition to Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Anglicans and Roman Catholics use that creed regularly in their liturgies. I think even some Baptist congregations use it sometimes.
When I was younger, the version I quote here was one the entire congregation recited nearly every Sunday (though we'd occasionally say the Nicene Creed instead; it's another ancient statement of faith just as old as the Apostle's Creed). Now we have other more modern ones we say from time to time, and the version that is in our hymnal is a more modern translation ("sits" instead of "sitteth", "living" instead of "quick", and so forth.) But the one I know by heart is the one I said for most of my life.
The thing I like about it, is it contains only the very essence of orthodox Christianity-- the Trinity, Christ's nature as God's son and our Saviour, the resurrection-- the important things that all Christians believe and none of the extraneous things that some Christians bicker and become divided over.
And when I say it, I do feel a connection to all the other Christians in the world who believe what it says (even if they do not know the exact creed).
no subject
Date: 2009-07-23 03:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-23 03:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-24 08:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-02 02:37 pm (UTC)