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dreamflowerI am well aware that there are many of my friends who may disagree with me over this issue, so I am putting it behind a cut. If you don't think you can read it without getting upset with me, then pass on by.
One of the main reasons that I was a supporter of President Obama in the last election was his staunch support of health care reform. My husband is a nurse, who has worked in health care in one way or another since he was 15, and started as a dishwasher in a nursing home, later becoming an orderly (back when they were still called that), an LPN and then an RN. He knows how badly such reform is needed.
So do I. As a child growing up, I was a military brat, a dependent back in the day when that meant something: namely free top-notch medical care. When I turned 21, and found out the cost of medical care for the average person, I was shocked.
But for the first 30 years of our marriage, we were lucky. We had excellent insurance plans through my husband's job, with reasonable deductibles, affordable co-pays, prescription coverage, and vision and dental coverage. Then we had another job change, and there was a gap between our coverage of one job and the beginning of the next job. That's what COBRA is for, right? It was $800.00 a month!
We couldn't have afforded it if my husband had not waived his sign-on bonus at the new job and had it applied to the COBRA instead.
Then fast-forward to another job change. This one did not have very good insurance, but it seemed that it might get better later on, and there were other reasons he needed to take the job. But guess what? Once he took the job, he was told he could not get into the new insurance plan because of our pre-existing conditions! And we could not do COBRA--the price on that had gone up from a year before and was now $1700.00 a month! We managed to struggle through a year with NO insurance before they allowed us to pick it up. But it's a lousy policy with a ridiculously high deductible and it only covers generic drugs. So, our $400.00 a month drugstore bill is not going to be ameliorated in any way by the new policy.
It's about time someone showed a little common sense over the health care issue. The screaming and hollering from people who ask questions and then fail to listen to the answers when they are given, is giving me a headache.
The anti-healthcare people are just rude. I've seen the clips of the town hall meetings, as someone will repeatedly scream a totally ludicrous question over and over at the beleaguered representative without stopping to draw breath or wait for an answer if it does come. When they do answer, IF they are heard, they are called liars.
These people are strident and unpleasant. Do they honestly think that a lack of common courtesy is going to accomplish anything? Or that they will convince anyone who does not already share their views?
I got the following from![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
claudia603's LJ, and think it deserves to be shared.
Dingell: Reform health care based on facts
Citizens deserve full, fair debate so bill can save medical system
U.S. Rep. John Dingell
Town hall meetings continue a democratic tradition that goes back more than 2,500 years. In ancient Athens, they held "Ecclesia" or gatherings to discuss and decide civic matters. Great movements have been born from these gatherings of individuals with different ideas working to forge consensus.
Last Thursday, I held two town hall meetings in Romulus to discuss a matter of the utmost importance -- health care reform. The large turnout made me very happy. I want to hear from opponents and supporters of the legislation.
More important, I need to hear people's specific concerns and the changes they want. In fact, my desire to hear from my constituents is so strong that while only one town hall was planned, I actually added the second that evening to hear from as many people as possible. That is what makes better legislation. I strongly believe the vast majority of the people in that room had legitimate concerns and questions. Sadly, they were denied the opportunity because some refused to let others speak and were only there to disrupt.
I want to hear from my constituents, but also explain that by lowering costs, improving quality and giving more choices to Americans, we can save both our health care system and economy.
The impending collapse of our health care system is one of the most important questions facing our nation, and full, free and fair debate is urgently needed. Here are the facts. The bill would:
• End the practice of denying insurance because of pre-existing conditions.
• Not allow termination of insurance if you become seriously ill.
• Preclude exorbitant out-of-pocket expenses, deductibles or co-pays.
• End annual or lifetime caps on coverage.
• Provide guaranteed oral, hearing and vision care for kids.
• Allow people to keep their doctor and their plan if they wish, while also creating more choices of insurance plans.
• Eliminate lifetime limits on health insurance coverage.
Unfortunately, the fiction about this bill is getting more attention that the facts. This bill will not do the following:
• Will not lead to employers discontinuing health care coverage in favor of government coverage. Based on an analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, H.R. 3200 will actually increase the number of people who get health insurance coverage through an employer compared with current law.
• Will not create an undue burden for small businesses. According to the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation, 96 percent of small businesses will pay no additional fees under the bill. In fact, small businesses will benefit from tax credits to empower them to provide health insurance for their employees. Small businesses are now paying 18 percent more than big businesses for the same policy; we will stop this unfair practice.
• Will not exempt members of Congress. Our health care plan will be subject to the same rules as all other employer-sponsored plans.
• Will not cover illegal immigrants, leaving American citizens to pay for it. Section 246 of H.R. 3200 specifically prohibits federal funds from being spent to cover illegal immigrants.
• Will not lead to government-sponsored euthanasia. This bill provides an option for individuals to discuss life-extending measures under various scenarios and for Medicare to cover the cost. It is entirely the individual's choice; it does not require anyone to use the benefit and it does not penalize those who don't. Patients and their families would consult with health professionals, not government officials, if they choose to use the benefit.
• Will not lead to government-sponsored abortions. An amendment was added in the Energy and Commerce Committee that explicitly states no public money can be used to fund abortions.
We will continue to maximize the opportunities throughout August for real and honest dialogue with those who have opinions, fears and questions. What we hope for is continued passionate involvement by many people in a civil environment. Democracy is at its best when this occurs.
Southern Beale's blog couldn't say it any better (link fromoselle.) Just shame on whoever is spreading those death panel legends. Shame on them.
One of the main reasons that I was a supporter of President Obama in the last election was his staunch support of health care reform. My husband is a nurse, who has worked in health care in one way or another since he was 15, and started as a dishwasher in a nursing home, later becoming an orderly (back when they were still called that), an LPN and then an RN. He knows how badly such reform is needed.
So do I. As a child growing up, I was a military brat, a dependent back in the day when that meant something: namely free top-notch medical care. When I turned 21, and found out the cost of medical care for the average person, I was shocked.
But for the first 30 years of our marriage, we were lucky. We had excellent insurance plans through my husband's job, with reasonable deductibles, affordable co-pays, prescription coverage, and vision and dental coverage. Then we had another job change, and there was a gap between our coverage of one job and the beginning of the next job. That's what COBRA is for, right? It was $800.00 a month!
We couldn't have afforded it if my husband had not waived his sign-on bonus at the new job and had it applied to the COBRA instead.
Then fast-forward to another job change. This one did not have very good insurance, but it seemed that it might get better later on, and there were other reasons he needed to take the job. But guess what? Once he took the job, he was told he could not get into the new insurance plan because of our pre-existing conditions! And we could not do COBRA--the price on that had gone up from a year before and was now $1700.00 a month! We managed to struggle through a year with NO insurance before they allowed us to pick it up. But it's a lousy policy with a ridiculously high deductible and it only covers generic drugs. So, our $400.00 a month drugstore bill is not going to be ameliorated in any way by the new policy.
It's about time someone showed a little common sense over the health care issue. The screaming and hollering from people who ask questions and then fail to listen to the answers when they are given, is giving me a headache.
The anti-healthcare people are just rude. I've seen the clips of the town hall meetings, as someone will repeatedly scream a totally ludicrous question over and over at the beleaguered representative without stopping to draw breath or wait for an answer if it does come. When they do answer, IF they are heard, they are called liars.
These people are strident and unpleasant. Do they honestly think that a lack of common courtesy is going to accomplish anything? Or that they will convince anyone who does not already share their views?
I got the following from
claudia603's LJ, and think it deserves to be shared.Dingell: Reform health care based on facts
Citizens deserve full, fair debate so bill can save medical system
U.S. Rep. John Dingell
Town hall meetings continue a democratic tradition that goes back more than 2,500 years. In ancient Athens, they held "Ecclesia" or gatherings to discuss and decide civic matters. Great movements have been born from these gatherings of individuals with different ideas working to forge consensus.
Last Thursday, I held two town hall meetings in Romulus to discuss a matter of the utmost importance -- health care reform. The large turnout made me very happy. I want to hear from opponents and supporters of the legislation.
More important, I need to hear people's specific concerns and the changes they want. In fact, my desire to hear from my constituents is so strong that while only one town hall was planned, I actually added the second that evening to hear from as many people as possible. That is what makes better legislation. I strongly believe the vast majority of the people in that room had legitimate concerns and questions. Sadly, they were denied the opportunity because some refused to let others speak and were only there to disrupt.
I want to hear from my constituents, but also explain that by lowering costs, improving quality and giving more choices to Americans, we can save both our health care system and economy.
The impending collapse of our health care system is one of the most important questions facing our nation, and full, free and fair debate is urgently needed. Here are the facts. The bill would:
• End the practice of denying insurance because of pre-existing conditions.
• Not allow termination of insurance if you become seriously ill.
• Preclude exorbitant out-of-pocket expenses, deductibles or co-pays.
• End annual or lifetime caps on coverage.
• Provide guaranteed oral, hearing and vision care for kids.
• Allow people to keep their doctor and their plan if they wish, while also creating more choices of insurance plans.
• Eliminate lifetime limits on health insurance coverage.
Unfortunately, the fiction about this bill is getting more attention that the facts. This bill will not do the following:
• Will not lead to employers discontinuing health care coverage in favor of government coverage. Based on an analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, H.R. 3200 will actually increase the number of people who get health insurance coverage through an employer compared with current law.
• Will not create an undue burden for small businesses. According to the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation, 96 percent of small businesses will pay no additional fees under the bill. In fact, small businesses will benefit from tax credits to empower them to provide health insurance for their employees. Small businesses are now paying 18 percent more than big businesses for the same policy; we will stop this unfair practice.
• Will not exempt members of Congress. Our health care plan will be subject to the same rules as all other employer-sponsored plans.
• Will not cover illegal immigrants, leaving American citizens to pay for it. Section 246 of H.R. 3200 specifically prohibits federal funds from being spent to cover illegal immigrants.
• Will not lead to government-sponsored euthanasia. This bill provides an option for individuals to discuss life-extending measures under various scenarios and for Medicare to cover the cost. It is entirely the individual's choice; it does not require anyone to use the benefit and it does not penalize those who don't. Patients and their families would consult with health professionals, not government officials, if they choose to use the benefit.
• Will not lead to government-sponsored abortions. An amendment was added in the Energy and Commerce Committee that explicitly states no public money can be used to fund abortions.
We will continue to maximize the opportunities throughout August for real and honest dialogue with those who have opinions, fears and questions. What we hope for is continued passionate involvement by many people in a civil environment. Democracy is at its best when this occurs.
Southern Beale's blog couldn't say it any better (link from
oselle.) Just shame on whoever is spreading those death panel legends. Shame on them.![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 08:51 pm (UTC)Part of the problem is that while I agree that the healthcare system does need to be reformed, I don't know who to believe or trust. One thing I've heard is that bit about the mandatory counseling on how to commit suicide for the elderly. I know the thing up there said it 'provides an option for individuals to discuss it..." but knowing how some things have evolved in the education arena I don't trust that it won't become a more high-pressure situation.
I also heard that pregnant women with unborn children who will be Down Syndrome are offered an abortion. They don't have to take it, but if they don't they will be 100% responsible for the medical costs for their children...
I just hate that I don't trust any side - not the politicians and/or bureaucrats, not the insurance people, not the media reporting on it. And I rarely like big government's solutions on problems for me. And most of all, I hate all the vitriol on all sides. And it DOES come from both sides...
no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:17 pm (UTC)• Will not lead to government-sponsored euthanasia. This bill provides an option for individuals to discuss life-extending measures under various scenarios and for Medicare to cover the cost. It is entirely the individual's choice; it does not require anyone to use the benefit and it does not penalize those who don't. Patients and their families would consult with health professionals, not government officials, if they choose to use the benefit.
The bill provides for an option that every five years, a doctor can take the time to counsel a patient about what is involved when approaching the end of their life: do they want heroic measures taken if they should have a cardiac arrest? do they want to be hooked up to machines if they are in a coma? do they want to have a living will? do they want to die at home among their family? what is a hospice, and how could it help them? These questions are all things we'd prefer to stick our heads in the sand over. I know *I* don't like to talk about them, and get very fidgety when my husband brings it up. But we do have to think about them.
Nowhere at all is there any reference to euthanasia. And if you think that it's not already being done by insurance companies, please read the link I provided-- her language is a bit rude, but the situation she describes is exactly how it is NOW-- insurance companies basically telling families that they will not pay for their family members to have certain measures taken at the end of their lives.
• Will not lead to government-sponsored abortions. An amendment was added in the Energy and Commerce Committee that explicitly states no public money can be used to fund abortions
You can see right there that the abortion claim is false.
Anyway, I do understand being conflicted when it comes to political matters. This one hits pretty close to home. I do hope that you are able to come to a decision about it that makes you comfortable.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:35 pm (UTC)But I really don't like being compared to Nazis because I'm opposed, either. That kind of name-calling doesn't help either. It's just that sort of thing that makes me disbelieve and distrust everyone, and want to avoid the whole discussion.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:40 pm (UTC)I for one am suspicious of most htings myself, but I think that government mandated (notice I said mandated, but not RUN) healthcare is a far better solution than NO healthcare (which is presently my situation and the situation of far too many others)
no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:41 pm (UTC)This healthcare discussion is not just on the 'net, but it's a flamewar all the same, and the same tactics are being used. Now, if only enough people will holler "Godwin's Law-- YOU LOSE!" to the anti-healthcare people.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:44 pm (UTC)Yep our comments crossed.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:44 pm (UTC)Healthcare reform wank!
no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:45 pm (UTC)But I do see some other people on the healthcare side calling the anti-healthcare people Nazis in return. That's counterproductive as well as rude and untrue.
I do hope that you can make a decision based on the facts and not on just what each side is screaming about. Emotions seem to run very high on this.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:48 pm (UTC)I am surrounded by people who are ultra-right-wing-conservative, and who don't want to hear anything else. The very few of us who don't believe that way, tend to speak in low-voiced clusters, and change the subject when others come our way.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 09:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 10:00 pm (UTC)It really is disgusting. One of the commenters said it was like the losing teams in the early heats of a race sitting down on the track to keep anyone else from running. The old "If I can't win, nobody else can either" tactic.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 10:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 10:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 10:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 10:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 10:51 pm (UTC)Of course, different countries have different issues. Canada isn't perfect, not by a long shot, but everyone has a right to healthcare, and that is something that I feel is intrinsic to our national culture. I hope that one day all Americans will have the same right. I hope very deeply for all your sakes as I have heard too many stories of desperately afraid and unhappy people in the States who have nowhere to turn.