dreamflower: gandalf at bag end (bag end 2 by <lj user="danae_b">)
[personal profile] dreamflower
B2MeM Prompt and Path: Purple path; Prompt--Act of Kindness, "Answer a question"
Format:Personal post
Genre: Act of Kindness
Rating: G
Warnings: n/a
Characters: n/a
Pairings: n/a
Creator’s Notes (optional): I thought and thought about what my act of kindness would be. It seemed this one might be the most useful.
Summary: I'll answer any question I can that will be helpful to the questioner in regards to the fandom.

One of the prompts for the Acts of Kindness on the 2017 Gameboard was "Answer a question for someone".

Or several someones. I don't claim to know everything, but I have 13 years of experience writing fanfic, and I do have a pretty good knowledge of hobbits and of The Lord of the Rings from years of reading. I do not have much knowledge of The Silmarillion, though I can perhaps point someone in the direction of an answer, if I don't have it.

So, if you have come upon a stumbling block in a story or simply need an answer to a question about canon, or hobbits in general, have at it.

This post will remain open as long as I continue getting questions!


Date: 2017-03-30 07:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sashahoneypalm.livejournal.com
I do not have much knowledge of The Silmarillion, though I can perhaps point someone in the direction of an answer, if I don't have it.

This is probably a "point someone in the direction" question, but it's been bothering me ever since I saw it brought up and unsatisfactorily handwaved in a fic: if Melkor was the first Vala to find the Elves, why was Orome the second? Why not Namo? We all know what Melkor did to the 1st-gen Quendi. You'd think that Namo would find himself with a bunch of dead elves on his doorstep all of the sudden.
(Actually, come to think of it, Namo should have been the first. The newly-awoken Elves would have to figure out all the dos and don'ts of the world by themselves. I refuse to believe that a learning process that included "don't walk on thin ice", "don't hug bears", "don't eat those funny-looking mushrooms", "carelessly-constructed huts can collapse on your head", etc, would have no casualties whatsoever).
Edited Date: 2017-03-30 10:30 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-03-30 08:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayleelupin.livejournal.com
And I'm not Dreamflower, so I hope she will pardon my jumping in on this one...

As far as I'm aware, Tolkien never answered this straight out. However, it only makes sense for Namo to have been the second (or even the first) Vala to discover them, all things considered. The remark that Orome was second to find them was written, naturally enough, from the perspective of the Elves who remembered Cuivienen, and while Namo was entirely likely to have discovered the Elven souls in his halls before his fellow Valar ever discovered where they'd Awakened...only the elves who had died and therefore met him would know that.

Between the Quendi meeting Melkor and Orome, only the *slain* ones had met Namo, and they weren't going anywhere to tell anyone. As for why Namo didn't tell the other Valar...perhaps, as in my Atto Fiondil's "Wars of the Valar," he was commanded not to by Eru.

Just my two cents.

Kaylee Arafinwiel

Date: 2017-03-30 08:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sashahoneypalm.livejournal.com
That does make sense. Probably the in-Valinor bits of the Silm were written before anyone get rehoused. And Namo is famously unsocial, he probably wouldn't go around correcting everyone else's version.

As for why Namo didn't tell the other Valar...perhaps, as in my Atto Fiondil's "Wars of the Valar," he was commanded not to by Eru.

*awkward silence* Er, that was the fic I was referring to, actually. Of course, one person's unsatisfactory handwave is another person's perfectly sensible plot point. I enjoyed "Wars of the Valar", and I found Namo's reaction to his new charges very poignant; I just wished that he had given a reason for why Eru wanted Namo and Manwe to keep quiet until Orome got back.

Anyway, thank you!

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From: [identity profile] kayleelupin.livejournal.com - Date: 2017-03-30 09:16 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2017-03-30 11:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sashahoneypalm.livejournal.com
Also, and I may be mistaken in this, but I have a strong impression that Orome originally came across the early Elves sort of by accident, and he liked them and felt sorry for them and so was then given the job of watching over them.

I wasn't saying that the first Vala to discover them should automatically be appointed their babysitter; I agree that Namo would be a pretty bad choice for that role. It's just that I'd assume that when Namo became aware that there were Elves out there, he'd call a meeting and say, "Hey, the Children have turned up! And speaking of people unexpectedly turning up, guess which rogue ainu has been sending them my way?"

If Orome really stumbled across the Children by accident, this brings up the question of what the limits of Vala-communication are. Because for a major event like Incarnates appearing, I can only imagine they'd put every effort into spreading the news. If, as Kaylee said, the Elves misunderstood the situation and Orome was really sent to find them, that would make more sense.

Perhaps it would have changed how Orome found them if Namo had said something, or maybe Namo saying something would have stirred the other Valar into acting too soon and forcing Melkor into a situation that could devastate the Quendi.

Sounds reasonable. I will keep this in mind next time I re-read "Wars of the Valar".

Date: 2017-03-31 04:56 am (UTC)
ext_45018: (tolkien - V is for Vaire)
From: [identity profile] oloriel.livejournal.com
Jumping in because I've just read something to that effect two days ago:

In the "Laws and Customs among the Eldar", it says that when the hroä (body) of an Elf is destroyd, their spirit (fëa) gets a summons, and although that summons is imperative, "yet it may be refused". When a fëa refuses the summons, it doesn't go to Mandos, but stays behind and more or less becomes a ghost. "Not all of these are kindly", although that seems to imply that a lot of them are doing no harm. Among the later Avari, refusal of the summons was apparently "frequent" enough; also, Morgoth apparently also sent a counter-summons, and Elves already corrupted followed that rather than the one to Mandos.

Soooo in theory it would be possible that Námo never received any Elven spirits before Oromë met the Elves in the flesh, because even if Eru supplied them with such poor instincts that they did, in fact, walk on thin creaking ice, hugged bears or ate funny-looking mushrooms, the confused house-less spirits might get the invitation to Mandos but not follow it. (If they died in Melkor's gentle keeping, they may not have been at liberty to go to Mandos anyway, since Melkor issued a counter-summons and in his stronghold, that may well have been more powerful than the one from Mandos. Besides, better the devil you know...?)

Of course, it might also just mean "meeting the Quendi in the flesh / out in nature", which Námo, due to the nature of his office, wouldn't have done? Add to that that Námo doesn't always seem to be the most communicative of Valar, and that he may not even have known where precisely these spirits were coming from, and you'd have another explanation for why Oromë is named as the first.

And lastly, of course, it might just have been a mistake of the author (in or out of universe), either by way of Not Thinking It Through or because My Daddy Always Said Oromë Was The First Who Met Them So That's How It Was. ;)

Not sure if any of this is useful?

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From: [identity profile] sashahoneypalm.livejournal.com - Date: 2017-03-31 03:11 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2017-03-30 08:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayleelupin.livejournal.com
*laughs* You do realize this is a dangerous thing to ask? *grin*

You'll have people asking for "The names of all the stars, and of all living things, and the whole history of Middle-earth and Over-heaven and of the Sundering Seas,what else?"

*ahem* but, in all seriousness, I've often wondered; how is it hobbits are so much shorter than Men, but can eat so much more?

Also, how do you think Ponto, Mimosa and Polo Baggins would have treated Hildigrim Took after the...incident regarding Rosa?

Date: 2017-03-30 08:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shirebound.livejournal.com
What's your personal opinion about why Tom Bombadil could put on the Ring and not disappear, nor be affected by it in any way?

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Date: 2017-03-30 08:51 pm (UTC)
independence1776: Drawing of Maglor with a harp on right, words "sing of honor lost" and "Noldolantë" on the left and bottom, respectively (Default)
From: [personal profile] independence1776
I have a couple of questions! They're not hobbit-focused, so I'm not sure if you'll be able to help.

1. Do we have any idea of how long Gandalf stayed with Bombadil when he separated from the Hobbits at the end of RotK?

2. Do we have any idea of what the weather that winter after Sauron's defeat was like in the Shire and Bree?

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Date: 2017-03-30 09:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elwenlj.livejournal.com
How are you on dwarves? :D

When the dwarves came to help set up Bilbo's party they were rather secretive, setting up overnight and, seemingly, not attending the party itself.

I always thought that Tolkien mentioned somewhere that dwarves traveled through the Shire on occasion. Assuming they weren't trading with the elves of the Havens, do you think they came to trade in the Shire itself?

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From: [identity profile] elwenlj.livejournal.com - Date: 2017-03-31 07:18 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2017-03-31 11:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] just-jenni.livejournal.com
Dreamflower, were you on the Purple Path? This isn't a question re: your post, but I have to tag this entry. :P Thanks. :D

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Date: 2017-03-31 02:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] foxrafer.livejournal.com
I don't think I'll ever manage to finish the Silmarillion; I don't even know how many times I've started and stopped. What other book would you recommend for more information on the world and the cultures (especially if I'm more interested in men, dwarves and hobbits than elves)?

Date: 2017-03-31 02:58 pm (UTC)
independence1776: Drawing of Maglor with a harp on right, words "sing of honor lost" and "Noldolantë" on the left and bottom, respectively (Default)
From: [personal profile] independence1776
I hope you don't mind me jumping in, Dreamflower.

Hobbits don't appear in the Silm at all, save for in the bit summarizes LotR and connects it to the past couple Ages. The Silm is largely but not entirely Elf-centric. And there truly isn't much detail about any of the cultures; even the most detailed don't go into much detail.

The first tip: if you are truly interested in the Silm and not given up entirely, one of the ways people get into it is via the audiobook, though it's helpful to have the family trees nearby.

A book: The Children of Húrin is the novel-length version of the most Men-centric chapter in the Silm. It is, however, something I find bleak and depressing because it's a "rocks fall, everyone dies" story. The other book isn't published yet, but Beren and Lúthien seems it will be along the same lines of taking one of the longest and most detailed chapters in the Silm and presenting it with material that didn't make it into the Silm to make it a stand-alone story. B&L may very well be more to you what you're looking for, given there will need to be some context of the larger Silm and they're also some of Aragorn's and Arwen's distant ancestors. It's one of the chapters that Tolkien considered central to his work.

I may-- and I stress the may-- have a few online resources: the Silmarillion Writers' Guild has essays, including summaries of each chapters in the Silm and a chronology. The Character of the Month biographies cover a wide variety of characters. Also, [livejournal.com profile] oloriel and I ran a rereading of the Silm a couple of years ago that summarized each chapter and went through an overview of how the chapter changed from Tolkien's first drafts to the published version.

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Date: 2017-04-06 04:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kgreen20.livejournal.com
Is there any chance that the Gamgees attended Bilbo and Frodo's final combined birthday party? The book doesn't say that they did, but I'd hate to think that Sam, in particular, was left out.

Also, we know that Bilbo gave some farewell gifts to Hamfast, but I wonder if he might also have given some final gifts to Sam?

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Date: 2017-04-15 12:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kgreen20.livejournal.com
Speaking of Gamgees brings me to another question. As we know, his daughter Goldilocks married Faramir Took. That means when Pippin died, she became the Thain's Lady. (That really brought the Gamgees up in the world! =))

This is the question: do you think that Goldilocks continued using the working-class dialect that her family had always used? It seems to me that, seeing as it wasn't considered proper for working-class hobbits to use the same dialect as the gentry, neither would it have been considered proper for Goldilocks to continue speaking in a working-class fashion once she became a Took by marriage, and especially once her husband became the Thain after Pippin. She must have changed her dialect at some point, to fit her new station. What do you think?

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