For CMEM08
Mar. 13th, 2008 09:43 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dreamflowerIn September of 2003, the two newsgroups, rec.arts.books.tolkien and alt.fan.tolkien
began a more or less weekly chapter by chapter discussion of Tolkien’s books: The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and The Silmarillion. The discussion began on Sept. 1, with “An Unexpected Party”, and ended in Feb. of 2007 at the end of The Silmarillion.
Each discussion began with a summary of the chapter by one of the participants, who also included some questions and observations to kick off the discussions.
I volunteered for six chapters: “Road to Isengard”, “Flotsam and Jetsom”, “The Houses of Healing” and “The Field of Cormallen” “Appendix C: The Family Trees”. I chose “The Field of Cormallen” to post here, since it’s a chapter that is completely non-existent in the films. (Though one event at the beginning is shown.)
The summary, of course, contains spoilers for the chapter, so if you’ve not yet read the books, you may wish to skip. The numbers correspond to the questions at the end of the summary. This was a format adopted by a number of the participants.
CHAPTER OF THE WEEK: BOOK VI, CHAPTER IV, "The Field of Cormallen"
In which most, if not quite all, sad things come untrue.
SUMMARY:
This chapter picks up where "The Black Gate Opens" leaves off. The battle is still raging. The first paragraph is an amazing bit of description. "Upon the hilltop stood Gandalf, and he was white and cold an no shadow fell on him. The onslaught of Mordor broke like a wave on the beleaguered hills, voices roaring like a tide amid the wreck and crash of arms." (1)
Then the Eagles arrive. (2) They attack the Nazgûl, who in turn break and
flee. But the Ringwraiths have been called by their Master; Sauron's
attention is no longer on the battlefield, and the remaining hosts of Mordor are suddenly in disarray. The hosts of the West begin to press their advantage, but Gandalf calls on them to wait--he knows that the whole point of the Quest is on the brink of fulfillment or failure. (3)
And then Sauron is blown away. Literally. (4)
With no time to waste, Gandalf commandeers Gwaihir and his two brothers, and heads out to fetch Frodo, Sam, and presumably Gollum, as he took three
Eagles.
We return now to Frodo and Sam, at the point we left them in "Mount Doom".
The two of them realize that their situation is pretty hopeless, but Sam can't make himself give up. He insists that they go down the mountain, delay their end as long as possible. Just as Gwaihir spies them, they succumb to their situation, and pass out. (6)
Sam awakens to the scent of Ithilien, and for a brief instant, thinks all
the intervening time has been a dream, until he spies Frodo's hand, with the missing finger. He speaks aloud, "Where are we?"
He is answered by Gandalf. Sam, of course is stunned. As far as he knew,
Gandalf was dead. In his amazement, he asks the wonderful question in true
Sam-fashion, "Is everything sad going to come untrue?" Gandalf laughs, and
his laughter causes Sam to first burst into tears, and then to laugh
himself. He describes how he feels, and then asks after Frodo.
Frodo himself sits up and laughs as well. He had been awake for some time
before, and then fell back to sleep waiting for Sam. (7) We learn that they have been asleep for two whole weeks. (8)
Gandalf tells them that they will be taken to the King. Sam seems not to
realize that this must be Aragorn, which is surprising, considering that he was listening in at the Council of Elrond. They are dressed once more in the rags they were wearing at the end, though Gandalf says they may have other clothing later. He also returns the gifts they received from Galadriel.
The hobbits wash and dress, and are led by Gandalf through the grove, and to a field where the host of the West is assembled to do them honor. There are trumpets and hymns of praise to them. (9)
They are led forward, and at the sight of Aragorn, the two run to greet and embrace their friend. (10) Sam seems shocked to see Strider. He is further non-plussed when the king bows to them, and then sets *them* upon the throne. They are presented to the host, and once more praised, and then a minstrel comes to sing the lay of "Frodo of the Nine Fingers and the Ring of Doom". This last is almost too much for Sam, who exclaims "O, great glory and splendor! And all my wishes have come true!" before bursting into tears. (11) The host listens to the minstrel until evening falls.
Now Frodo and Sam are led to a tent where they are given new clothing to
wear, and their cloaks and other items are returned to them. Frodo is given back the mithril shirt and Sting, which he is reluctant to don, and does so only at Gandalf's urging. Sam is gifted with a coat of gilded mail. And they are given silver circlets of honor, as well. (12) (13)
They are led to the Royal Pavilion, where they are seated at the High Table among all the great leaders, and find themselves waited upon by two esquires in livery--Merry and Pippin. This is Sam's first sight of the two since he has awakened, and he is flabbergasted by their appearance and cannot get over their growth spurts. Pippin tells him "We are knights of the City and of the Mark, as I hope you observe." (14)
The feast ends, and the friends all return to the beech grove. There, Sam is caught up with the news of all that took place while they were separated, though he seems to have trouble digesting it all, and Pippin makes the comment about Frodo writing it all down. Finally, Gandalf reminds them that they are only newly awakened from their injuries and need rest, and Gimli reminds Pippin of the same--he's only been allowed up for one day, prior to this. (15)
We have a brief interlude from Legolas, who is off to commune with the
trees. He sings a lovely song of the Sea, before taking himself off. (16)
They spend almost a month enjoying Ithilien and recuperating, before heading back to Minas Tirith. There are apparently a few little mopping up
operations to do with some of the remnants of the Enemy, as well. Finally,
they head back to the White City, arriving on the eve of the first of
May--the day before Aragorn returns to become crowned as King Elessar.
QUESTIONS AND OBSERVATIONS:
(1) Has Gandalf then, uncloaked his power as a Maia here?
(2) Good place for a discussion of the role of the Eagles. Are they, as some claim, merely a deus ex machina, there for the convenience of the plot, or is there more significance to their presence. How important to realizing the role the Eagles play is a knowledge of the Silmarillion, and the role of the Eagles there? Are *these* Eagles in particular merely a higher form of animal, as is Shadowfax for horses, or are they emissaries of the Valar? Gwaihir, at least, talks.
(3) Is it merely the reaction of the armies of Mordor, or has Gandalf's Ring alerted him to Frodo's claiming of the One?
(4) Sauron's end (on a somewhat vaster scale) seems similar to Sharkey's end later: a shadow reaching high, leaning to the West, and then dissipated in the wind. Interesting. Why was Sauron leaning to the West? Is there a reason for the similarity?
(5) Did he in fact, think he would find them alive? Or was this one more act of faith (hope)?
(6) Gwaihir's POV is the last in this chapter of anyone but Sam. We do not
get any more of Frodo's POV at all.
(7) What did Frodo do during the morning hours, as he waited for Sam to
awaken? We are not privy to any of this. Not even second-hand.
(8) Why the two week healing sleep? Story external, it serves a number of
purposes--moving the plot along, and enabling JRRT to skip over the messy
medical details of caring for two people suffering from exposure,
dehydration, malnutrition, and any number of smaller cuts, burns, bruises
and abrasions, abuse from orcs and Gollum, not to mention a missing digit
with the attendant blood loss. But what about story internal? Is this
healing sleep some esoteric method used by the Elves that Aragorn is
familiar with?
(9) The hymn of praise: is it a set of verses, that have been disseminated
to the crowd, or is it meant to be simply the outcry of cheering from all
the different folk there assembled? I have always thought of it as an actual poem or song, but a careful reading of the text here shows there *could* be another interpretation.
(10) This is, to me, such a hobbity reaction. Their first thought is not
"Here's a King" but "here's our friend." It is one of my favorite things.
(11) Discussion of Eucatastrophe, anyone?
(12) As in the "Mount Doom" chapter, we see again Frodo's reluctance to bear a weapon. Significance?
(13) So, in two weeks, while the army is yet in the field, they have come up with new clothes that fit the hobbits, the circlets and the gilded coat of mail. These things can't be whipped up overnight. Where did they come from? JRRT gives no hints, here. Wild speculation, anyone?
(14) Another untold bit. So when did these knightings take place? Éowyn
asked Eómer to knight Merry, but there was certainly no time for that before the host left Minas Tirith. And no hint that Pippin was to be knighted as well.
(15) Pippin's recuperation is remarkable. According to Gimli, he was taken
for dead when found beneath the troll, so his injuries must have been
serious. Yet here he is, serving feast and appearing chipper only two weeks later. I have some interesting theories on that score.
(16) Does anyone else think the placement of this is odd? I love the poem,
and think it one of JRRT's sweetest and saddest, but it seems a bit out of
place here.
OTHER QUESTIONS AND OBSERVATIONS:
This is one of the sweetest and most poetical of the last chapters, an
interlude that allows for healing and recovery, and for the reader to savor the Eucatastrophe of the Ring's destruction and the survival of the heroes.
But in some ways, there is a good deal left out. We do not know, other than sleep, what treatment Frodo and Sam received, we do not know, other than that it kept him abed for 13 days, what injuries Pippin sustained in the battle, nor what treatment *he* received. We are not told what Merry did after his arrival there. And Frodo is strangely quiet. Certainly we get Sam's POV, but Frodo does not tell him what he was doing before Sam awakened--yet he does not express any surprise at seeing Merry and Pippin at the feast, for example. So we are not getting Frodo's POV even second-handedly. There is, basically, a two-week gap, during which we know *nothing*. Why?
FAVORITE QUOTE:
"And all the host laughed and wept, and in the midst of their merriment and tears the clear voice of the minstrel rose like silver and gold, and all men were hushed. And he sang to them, not in the Elven-tongue, not in the speech of the West, until their hearts, wounded with words, overflowed, and their joy was like swords, and they passed in thought out of regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness."
If you care to follow the discussion of this chapter as it developed in the CotW thread, here’s a link:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/7aa5c5cad937862a
And if you are interested in seeing the results of the entire project, from TH through The Silm, here is another link that will take you to that:
http://silenceisdefeat.org/~aft-rabt/CotW_1.html
began a more or less weekly chapter by chapter discussion of Tolkien’s books: The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and The Silmarillion. The discussion began on Sept. 1, with “An Unexpected Party”, and ended in Feb. of 2007 at the end of The Silmarillion.
Each discussion began with a summary of the chapter by one of the participants, who also included some questions and observations to kick off the discussions.
I volunteered for six chapters: “Road to Isengard”, “Flotsam and Jetsom”, “The Houses of Healing” and “The Field of Cormallen” “Appendix C: The Family Trees”. I chose “The Field of Cormallen” to post here, since it’s a chapter that is completely non-existent in the films. (Though one event at the beginning is shown.)
The summary, of course, contains spoilers for the chapter, so if you’ve not yet read the books, you may wish to skip. The numbers correspond to the questions at the end of the summary. This was a format adopted by a number of the participants.
CHAPTER OF THE WEEK: BOOK VI, CHAPTER IV, "The Field of Cormallen"
In which most, if not quite all, sad things come untrue.
SUMMARY:
This chapter picks up where "The Black Gate Opens" leaves off. The battle is still raging. The first paragraph is an amazing bit of description. "Upon the hilltop stood Gandalf, and he was white and cold an no shadow fell on him. The onslaught of Mordor broke like a wave on the beleaguered hills, voices roaring like a tide amid the wreck and crash of arms." (1)
Then the Eagles arrive. (2) They attack the Nazgûl, who in turn break and
flee. But the Ringwraiths have been called by their Master; Sauron's
attention is no longer on the battlefield, and the remaining hosts of Mordor are suddenly in disarray. The hosts of the West begin to press their advantage, but Gandalf calls on them to wait--he knows that the whole point of the Quest is on the brink of fulfillment or failure. (3)
And then Sauron is blown away. Literally. (4)
With no time to waste, Gandalf commandeers Gwaihir and his two brothers, and heads out to fetch Frodo, Sam, and presumably Gollum, as he took three
Eagles.
We return now to Frodo and Sam, at the point we left them in "Mount Doom".
The two of them realize that their situation is pretty hopeless, but Sam can't make himself give up. He insists that they go down the mountain, delay their end as long as possible. Just as Gwaihir spies them, they succumb to their situation, and pass out. (6)
Sam awakens to the scent of Ithilien, and for a brief instant, thinks all
the intervening time has been a dream, until he spies Frodo's hand, with the missing finger. He speaks aloud, "Where are we?"
He is answered by Gandalf. Sam, of course is stunned. As far as he knew,
Gandalf was dead. In his amazement, he asks the wonderful question in true
Sam-fashion, "Is everything sad going to come untrue?" Gandalf laughs, and
his laughter causes Sam to first burst into tears, and then to laugh
himself. He describes how he feels, and then asks after Frodo.
Frodo himself sits up and laughs as well. He had been awake for some time
before, and then fell back to sleep waiting for Sam. (7) We learn that they have been asleep for two whole weeks. (8)
Gandalf tells them that they will be taken to the King. Sam seems not to
realize that this must be Aragorn, which is surprising, considering that he was listening in at the Council of Elrond. They are dressed once more in the rags they were wearing at the end, though Gandalf says they may have other clothing later. He also returns the gifts they received from Galadriel.
The hobbits wash and dress, and are led by Gandalf through the grove, and to a field where the host of the West is assembled to do them honor. There are trumpets and hymns of praise to them. (9)
They are led forward, and at the sight of Aragorn, the two run to greet and embrace their friend. (10) Sam seems shocked to see Strider. He is further non-plussed when the king bows to them, and then sets *them* upon the throne. They are presented to the host, and once more praised, and then a minstrel comes to sing the lay of "Frodo of the Nine Fingers and the Ring of Doom". This last is almost too much for Sam, who exclaims "O, great glory and splendor! And all my wishes have come true!" before bursting into tears. (11) The host listens to the minstrel until evening falls.
Now Frodo and Sam are led to a tent where they are given new clothing to
wear, and their cloaks and other items are returned to them. Frodo is given back the mithril shirt and Sting, which he is reluctant to don, and does so only at Gandalf's urging. Sam is gifted with a coat of gilded mail. And they are given silver circlets of honor, as well. (12) (13)
They are led to the Royal Pavilion, where they are seated at the High Table among all the great leaders, and find themselves waited upon by two esquires in livery--Merry and Pippin. This is Sam's first sight of the two since he has awakened, and he is flabbergasted by their appearance and cannot get over their growth spurts. Pippin tells him "We are knights of the City and of the Mark, as I hope you observe." (14)
The feast ends, and the friends all return to the beech grove. There, Sam is caught up with the news of all that took place while they were separated, though he seems to have trouble digesting it all, and Pippin makes the comment about Frodo writing it all down. Finally, Gandalf reminds them that they are only newly awakened from their injuries and need rest, and Gimli reminds Pippin of the same--he's only been allowed up for one day, prior to this. (15)
We have a brief interlude from Legolas, who is off to commune with the
trees. He sings a lovely song of the Sea, before taking himself off. (16)
They spend almost a month enjoying Ithilien and recuperating, before heading back to Minas Tirith. There are apparently a few little mopping up
operations to do with some of the remnants of the Enemy, as well. Finally,
they head back to the White City, arriving on the eve of the first of
May--the day before Aragorn returns to become crowned as King Elessar.
QUESTIONS AND OBSERVATIONS:
(1) Has Gandalf then, uncloaked his power as a Maia here?
(2) Good place for a discussion of the role of the Eagles. Are they, as some claim, merely a deus ex machina, there for the convenience of the plot, or is there more significance to their presence. How important to realizing the role the Eagles play is a knowledge of the Silmarillion, and the role of the Eagles there? Are *these* Eagles in particular merely a higher form of animal, as is Shadowfax for horses, or are they emissaries of the Valar? Gwaihir, at least, talks.
(3) Is it merely the reaction of the armies of Mordor, or has Gandalf's Ring alerted him to Frodo's claiming of the One?
(4) Sauron's end (on a somewhat vaster scale) seems similar to Sharkey's end later: a shadow reaching high, leaning to the West, and then dissipated in the wind. Interesting. Why was Sauron leaning to the West? Is there a reason for the similarity?
(5) Did he in fact, think he would find them alive? Or was this one more act of faith (hope)?
(6) Gwaihir's POV is the last in this chapter of anyone but Sam. We do not
get any more of Frodo's POV at all.
(7) What did Frodo do during the morning hours, as he waited for Sam to
awaken? We are not privy to any of this. Not even second-hand.
(8) Why the two week healing sleep? Story external, it serves a number of
purposes--moving the plot along, and enabling JRRT to skip over the messy
medical details of caring for two people suffering from exposure,
dehydration, malnutrition, and any number of smaller cuts, burns, bruises
and abrasions, abuse from orcs and Gollum, not to mention a missing digit
with the attendant blood loss. But what about story internal? Is this
healing sleep some esoteric method used by the Elves that Aragorn is
familiar with?
(9) The hymn of praise: is it a set of verses, that have been disseminated
to the crowd, or is it meant to be simply the outcry of cheering from all
the different folk there assembled? I have always thought of it as an actual poem or song, but a careful reading of the text here shows there *could* be another interpretation.
(10) This is, to me, such a hobbity reaction. Their first thought is not
"Here's a King" but "here's our friend." It is one of my favorite things.
(11) Discussion of Eucatastrophe, anyone?
(12) As in the "Mount Doom" chapter, we see again Frodo's reluctance to bear a weapon. Significance?
(13) So, in two weeks, while the army is yet in the field, they have come up with new clothes that fit the hobbits, the circlets and the gilded coat of mail. These things can't be whipped up overnight. Where did they come from? JRRT gives no hints, here. Wild speculation, anyone?
(14) Another untold bit. So when did these knightings take place? Éowyn
asked Eómer to knight Merry, but there was certainly no time for that before the host left Minas Tirith. And no hint that Pippin was to be knighted as well.
(15) Pippin's recuperation is remarkable. According to Gimli, he was taken
for dead when found beneath the troll, so his injuries must have been
serious. Yet here he is, serving feast and appearing chipper only two weeks later. I have some interesting theories on that score.
(16) Does anyone else think the placement of this is odd? I love the poem,
and think it one of JRRT's sweetest and saddest, but it seems a bit out of
place here.
OTHER QUESTIONS AND OBSERVATIONS:
This is one of the sweetest and most poetical of the last chapters, an
interlude that allows for healing and recovery, and for the reader to savor the Eucatastrophe of the Ring's destruction and the survival of the heroes.
But in some ways, there is a good deal left out. We do not know, other than sleep, what treatment Frodo and Sam received, we do not know, other than that it kept him abed for 13 days, what injuries Pippin sustained in the battle, nor what treatment *he* received. We are not told what Merry did after his arrival there. And Frodo is strangely quiet. Certainly we get Sam's POV, but Frodo does not tell him what he was doing before Sam awakened--yet he does not express any surprise at seeing Merry and Pippin at the feast, for example. So we are not getting Frodo's POV even second-handedly. There is, basically, a two-week gap, during which we know *nothing*. Why?
FAVORITE QUOTE:
"And all the host laughed and wept, and in the midst of their merriment and tears the clear voice of the minstrel rose like silver and gold, and all men were hushed. And he sang to them, not in the Elven-tongue, not in the speech of the West, until their hearts, wounded with words, overflowed, and their joy was like swords, and they passed in thought out of regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness."
If you care to follow the discussion of this chapter as it developed in the CotW thread, here’s a link:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/7aa5c5cad937862a
And if you are interested in seeing the results of the entire project, from TH through The Silm, here is another link that will take you to that:
http://silenceisdefeat.org/~aft-rabt/CotW_1.html
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2008-03-14 06:09 am (UTC)You have given me some fresh insights. I hope you'll post your HOH thoughts here too as that is my favourite chapter.I'm racking my brains for something to celebrate March 15th!
no subject
Date: 2008-03-14 01:46 pm (UTC)I think that the Ent-draught may have been a factor in Pippin's recovery. We know that it had a certain amount of healing virtue. The growth spurt and the curly hair were permanent. So why wouldn't the "boost" to their bodies' healing abililty be permanent?
Here's a link to the summary and discussion of HoH:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books.tolkien/browse_frm/thread/b561904e8331b659
no subject
Date: 2008-03-15 03:24 am (UTC)Thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading the discussion.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-14 11:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-03-14 01:59 pm (UTC)It seems to me that the majority of folks on r.a.b.t./a.f.t were mostly in the first camp, or perhaps the third. These are the folks who start endless discussions of Balrog-wings, or try to figure out the languages.
Most fanfic writers, however, are like you and me--we want to know what the "story-internal" reasons are for things. Sure, we know that JRRT wants to show us Sam's surprise at seeing Merry and Pippin for the first time at the feast, and he wanted some time for Gandalf to explain to Sam where they were and what was happening without distraction. But *WE* want to know, how did that happen? Why is it that apparently the presumably worried cousins are not right at Frodo and Sam's sides when they wake up? Maybe they did see Frodo first? If they did, why were they gone when Sam woke up? If they didn't, how did people keep them away? We aren't satisfied by just knowing the nuts and bolts of how JRRT wrote, we want to immerse ourselves in his world.
I like both. But while I do enjoy meta discussion, I like knowing what was happening to the "people in the story", as Sam put it, even more!