How many plots did JRRT use?

[dreamflower]

According to some people, there are only 36 plots for stories in the world, and every story is a variation on one of these. I thought it would be fun to see how many of these plots JRRT used in his stories. I just thought of whatever appropriate thing popped into my head right away. There were only 6 I could not immediately think of his using. Anyway, I’ll put my answer to the first one down, but I’ll leave the rest blank if anyone’s interested in figuring out how he used the others. For some of them there were multiple answers. And some of you may be able to figure out answers for the ones I couldn't figure out!



1. Supplication
The dynamic elements technically necessary are: a Persecutor; a Supplicant; and a Power in authority, whose decision is doubtful.

This one was fairly quickly answered: The story of Eärendil

2. Deliverance
Elements: an Unfortunate, a Threatener, a Rescuer.

3. Crime Pursued by Vengeance
Elements: an Avenger and a Criminal

4. Vengeance Taken for Kindred Upon Kindred
Elements: Avenging Kinsman; Guilty Kinsman; Remembrance of the Victim, a Relative of Both

5. Pursuit
Elements: Punishment and Fugitive

6 Disaster
Elements: a Vanquished Power; a Victorious Enemy or a Messenger

7. Falling Prey to Cruelty or Misfortune
Elements: an Unfortunate; a Master or a Misfortune

8. Revolt
Elements: Tyrant and Conspirator

9. Daring Enterprise
Elements: a Bold Leader; an Object; an Adversary

10. Abduction
Elements: the Abductor; the Abducted; the Guardian

11. The Enigma
Elements: Interrogator, Seeker and Problem

12. Obtaining
Elements: a Solicitor and an Adversary Who is Refusing, or an Arbitrator and Opposing Parties

13. Enmity of Kinsmen
Elements: a Malevolent Kinsman; a Hatred or Reciprocally Hating Kinsman

14. Rivalry of Kinsmen
Elements: the Preferred Kinsman; the Rejected Kinsman; the Object

15. Murderous Adultery
Elements: Two Adulterers; a Betrayed Husband or Wife

16. Madness
Elements: Madman and Victim

17. Fatal Imprudence
Elements: The Imprudent; the Victim or the Object Lost

18. Involuntary Crimes of Love
Elements: the Lover, the Beloved; the Revealer

19. Slaying of a Kinsman Unrecognised
Elements: the Slayer, the Unrecognized Victim

20. Self-Sacrifice for an Ideal
Elements: the Hero; the Ideal; the 'Creditor' or the Person or Thing Sacrificed

21. Self-Sacrifice for Kindred
Elements: the Hero; the Kinsman; the 'Creditor' or the Person or Thing Sacrificed

22. All Sacrificed for Passion
Elements: the Lover, the Object of the Fatal Passion; the Person or Thing Sacrificed

23. Necessity of Sacrificing Loved Ones
Elements: the Hero; the Beloved Victim; the Necessity for the Sacrifice

24. Rivalry of Superior and Inferior
Elements: the Superior Rival; the Inferior Rival; the Object

25. Adultery
Elements: a Deceived Husband or Wife; Two Adulterers

26. Crimes of Love
Elements: The Lover, the Beloved

27. Discovery of the Dishonour of a Loved One
Elements: the Discoverer; the Guilty One

28. Obstacles to Love
Elements: Two Lovers, an Obstacle

29. An Enemy Loved
Elements: The Beloved Enemy; the Lover; the Hater

30. Ambition
Elements: an Ambitious Person; a Thing Coveted; an Adversary

31. Conflict With a God
Elements: a Mortal, an Immortal

32. Mistaken Jealousy
Elements: the Jealous One; the Object of Whose Possession He is Jealous; the Supposed Accomplice; the Cause or the Author of the Mistake

33. Erroneous Judgement
Elements: The Mistaken One; the Victim of the Mistake; the Cause or Author of the Mistake; the Guilty Person

34. Remorse
Elements: the Culprit; the Victim or the Sin; the Interrogator

35. Recovery of a Lost One
Elements: The Seeker; the One Found

36. Loss of Loved Ones
A Kinsman Slain; a Kinsman Spectator; an Executioner


At any rate, I thought it might make an interesting discussion.

Comments

[slightlytookish]

This is really interesting! Where did you get the list?

[dreamflower]

Originally I found it in one of those Writer's Digest books I've mentioned, but I also found it online:

http://www.timsheppard.co.uk/story/articles/36drama.html

I thought it was fascinating! And then I started thinking about Tolkien--manly because some of the themes that the writer of the book said were "out of date" and hadn't been used in a few hundred years, I knew definitely *had* been used by JRRT! (Such as that first one, for example.)

[slightlytookish]

Thanks for the info!

You should tell us which ones you had trouble with, and we can try figuring those out first ;)

[dreamflower]

4, 13, 17 (it was the "fatal" part that threw me, otherwise, I'd have thought of Pippin and the palantir), 25, 26, 27 and 29.

[slightlytookish]

Hmm...well, for #29 could we say Legolas and Gimli? I wouldn't exactly call them "enemies" at the start but their friendship comes the closest to what the author of this list had in mind, I think...but it's not a perfect answer by any means!

[dreamflower]

Yeah, I think it comes close, although the examples that the author used were "Romeo and Juliet" or the Hatfields and McCoys, that sort of thing.

But it *could* be!

[lindelea1.livejournal.com]

Perhaps "Fatal imprudence" could be laid at Denethor's door, for his choosing to wrestle with the Dark Lord in the Palantir? (So see, you were on the right track.)

[shirebound]

What a fascinating list. I can't think of one for 'Adultery' offhand.

[dreamflower]

That was one of the ones I came up blank for. Also "Murderous Adultery" as well. "Involuntary Crimes of Love" was clearly Children of Hurin, but I could not think of any for "Crimes of Love", either. On the other hand, #2, "Deliverance" I came up with too many to list, and am sure that I must have still missed some.

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

Such timeless themes! They say there are no new plots in the world...

[dreamflower]

That's the point the author was making, I think.

[the-arc5.livejournal.com]

This is fun! So much cooler than lit class!

4. I don't really know. Perhaps Faramir and Denethor, in the sense that Denethor retaliated to the loss of his wife and son (in his mind, sons) by killing himself. His admittedly inadvertent attempt to kill Faramir has a sense of malice to it, in that if Denethor's life is meaningless, he will not suffer anything to remain, even the body of his son. It's a matter of self-vengeance, really, but bringing Faramir into it also gives a sub-concious revenge element to the action. (Faramir failed to live up to his expectations, as did Boromir: Denethor destroys himself and tries to destroy Faramir in retaliation.)

13. I'm rooting for Denethor again. Is this family dysfunctional, or what?

17. Númenor? That was fatal and imprudent, right?

25. Sam marries Rosie, despite being secret lovers with Frodo? I'm kidding, I'm kidding...no idea on this one.

26. What necessitates a "crime of love"? The best I've got is Merry, Pippin, and Sam lying/spying/etc. on Frodo's behalf. It's not a legal crime, but a moral one, and one spurred by love.

27. Eöl and Aredhel...by way of Maeglin?

29. I'm in support of Legolas and Gimli for this one, if only for how the story turns out. The two races should be mutually divided, if not outright enemies, but the mutual love and friendship that results is uncommonly strong, so I think it qualifies.

[dreamflower]

That's a good thought for 4 and 13.

LOL! I suppose you could say that! Yes, indeed! Okay, Numenor it is!

Er...JRRT was not much for marital infidelity, was he?

Hmm...I'm not as up on Eol and Aredhel as I should be. Wasn't she the one who was married against her will or something?

Well, the book defined Crime of Love as bestiality, incest, pederasty, child or spouse abuse" The only one I could think of was Children of Huring, but that fits more in with "Unknowing Crime of Love", since they didn't know what they were doing. I suppose that probably some of the bad guys might have been guilty of some of that other stuff, but if they were JRRT never told us about it.

Legolas and Gimli I guess are close, though I don't really see them as the Romeo and Juliet types.

[surgicalsteel.livejournal.com]

On Legolas and Gimli as Romeo and Juliet? Depends on whose slash you read. ;)

[the-arc5.livejournal.com]

*does the Denethor dance...whatever that is*

Squee!!! I'm not a Silm failure!

He really wasn't. That's seriously the closest thing I can think of that even resembles marital infidelity. Fanfic, now...

Aredhel didn't like Eol, but it was kind of like she made the best of a bad situation. At any rate, he accidentally killed her while trying to kill his son, and she still tried to spare his life with her dying breath, so...definitely a loss of honor, there, but "loved" may be pushing it.

Crimes of Love is stupid. That makes absolutely no sense; you'd have to have some sort of secondary plot to resolve the conflict, since all of those things are just means of conflict and don't really offer up any means of resolution. My interpretation makes much more sense. *pouts* Wait... Lotho? I mean, maybe not spousal abuse, or child abuse, but abuse of family, certainly, as well as abuse of a close-knit community...

Romeo and Juliet don't fit this category, I don't think, because the two of them are never really enemies. Their families are feuding, but as individuals, Romeo and Juliet are never enemies; they fall in love at first sight, and die before they can feel anything else. Legolas and Gimli at least feel animosity and then love, of a fraternal and masculine sort.

Or of the rampant shagging and eternal romance sort, surgicalsteel, depending on whose slash you read. :)

[surgicalsteel.livejournal.com]

On the 'Murderous Adultery' one - the only thing that I can think of that comes close is Finwe and Miriel. In the expanded version in 'Morgoth's Ring,' it's stated that in order to gain permission to marry Indis, Finwe had to convince Miriel to stay in the Halls of Mandos and never be re-incorporated. That could be viewed as a type of murderous adultery - Finwe and Indis as the adulterers and Miriel as the betrayed spouse.

#4 - it's a stretch, but Turin suiciding on Gurthang - the sword says 'I will slay you swiftly in memory of Beleg slain unjustly.' Beleg was a friend of Turin's - a stretch, as I said.

#13 - Feanor and Fingolfin. Feanor threatened Fingolfin at swordpoint, I'd say that counts as 'emnity.' ;)

#17 - Maedhros and Maglor taking the last two Silmarils - and then one throwing himself into the 'depths of the earth' and the other throwing the Silmaril into the sea?

#25 could almost be the same as #15...

#26 - The Mariner's Wife - the tale of Tar-Aldarion and his wife Erendis. He kept going off to sea against her wishes, she threw him out of her bed and tried to turn their daughter against him, etc.

Can't help you on #27 or #29.

[dreamflower]

Now that's an interesting take on Finwe and Miriel! It would never have occured to me!

4. Now, that could work.

13. Good one! I'm not as up on the Silm as I should be.

17. Well, actually, I suppose the whole Simarillion stuff could fall under the category of "fatal imprudence". Feanor's oath was pretty foolish to begin with...

25 and 15--whoever made the list seemed to think adultery with murder was a different thing than plain vanilla adultery. But I can't seem to think of a case of either one...

26. Oh, you have a point there! Good for you!

[surgicalsteel.livejournal.com]

I got something like 95% on that Silm test that was going around - not sure how, as I haven't read the darn thing in a long time, though. ;)

But Aldarion and Erendis are proof to me that JRRT really did have a very good grasp on just how nasty two people who supposedly love one another can be toward one another.

[surgicalsteel.livejournal.com]

Oh - another for #26 - Ar-Pharazon and Ar-Zimraphel(Tar-Miriel)? Rape, incest (because Numenoreans supposedly didn't marry kin that close - they were first cousins), usurpation of a throne. Would those count as 'crimes of love'?

They could work for #29 also, if you assume that Ar-Pharazon had some affection for his cousin.

[ramblin_rosie]

I think pretty much all of the family conflict plots play a role in the arc of Fëanor and his sons, and several apply to Turgon-Aredhel-Eöl-Maeglin-Idril-Tuor. Fatal imprudence... I'm sure there's at least one case in Silm that's not an outright act of betrayal--maybe Húrin's attempt to go back to Gondolin after Morgoth releases him. Beloved enemy could technically be Beren/Luthien, given the tendency of certain Elves to see all Men as enemies. Dishonor of a loved one could be when Galadriel finally tells Melian the truth about why the Noldor returned. The other two I can't peg.

[dreamflower]

Oh, perfect! I think that means that he covered it all! No wonder there's so much to be found in his work!

[ansostuff.livejournal.com]

There should be enough plots to go around for a while there! I never knew there was such a list, but I thought about plots yesterday when laughing my head off watching some old TV shows. I guess Tolkien used quite a few of these, some as bigger plots and others as smaller, more quickly solved plots. A plot in a plot so to speak.

[dreamflower]

He seemed to use almost all of them, LOL! In one fashion or another!

[tracey-claybon.livejournal.com]

My background is professional writing - I admit it - I've never heard of this list you have here - but it does describe almost all the plots I currently know of... I'd love to know where you found this list too.

[dreamflower]

I first came across it in a book called Theme & Strategy: How to build a strong narrative structure to help your fiction stand tall, run fast, hit hard, and soar to success. by Ronald B. Tobias

It's one of a series put out by Writer's Digest, called The Elements of Fiction Writing. But he had taken it from someone else. I googled it and found it several places on the web. It's first attributed to someone named Georges Polti.

[lindahoyland.livejournal.com]

I once read a fasinating book which a friend lent me, which claims all literature is based on just Seven basic plots,
1. The Quest,
2.Voyage and Return,
3.Killing the Monster
4.Miraculous Escape from Death
5.Rags to Riches
6.Comedy
7.Tragedy.
I hope I have remembered correctly ! What was interesting,was the author(Christopher Booker) said the LOTR books and films had such a wide appeal as they were based on all seven.

1.Destroying the ring, Aragorn becoming King
2.The journey,paths of the dead
3.Shelob,the watcher in the Water,The Balrog
4.Gandalf, Frodo and Sam
5,Aragorn, Sam
6.Aragorn and Arwen (Comedy here means a happy ending for the hero and heroine)
7.Sauraman